tv Hardball Weekend MSNBC June 25, 2011 5:00am-5:30am EDT
> michelle bachmann rides a dinosaur through the entire 6,000 year history of the universe. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm ron reagan in seattle sitting in from chris matthews. leading in tonight the war against the war. from the start, the americans have been skeptical of u.s. involvement in libya and today the house threw a pie in the face of president obama. voting overwhelmingly against a measure that would have authorized the u.s. mission
there. not only did all by ought republicans vote no, but 70 democrats deserted the president as well. it's a symbolic blow, but it's a sign of growing impatience with the effort to get gadhafi. plus the war on science, michelle bachmann who kicks off her presidential campaign on monday says when it comes to evolution, the so-called intelligent design or creationism theory there's a scientific controversy and both should be taught. let's be clear, there is no controversy at all among sign tifstists whether humans evolved. none. we'll get into the debate over creationism should be taught in schools. also, who says taxes can never be raised. eric cantor and john kyle walked out of budget talks for one reason yesterday, taxes. taxes are at their lowest levels in decades. our government is deep in the red and i happen to be very familiar with one president who hated taxes, but raised them
when he saw it was necessary. why won't republicans even consider making the wealthy pay a little bit more? why are some people in the fbi so nervous about capture of whitey bulger? could it be that they protected him and now are terrified that health turn on them. finally, as they say, dying is easy, comedy is hard. texas governor rick perry found just how hard last night. check out the side show. we begin with libya, as we said the house today rejected a measure authorizing the u.s. mission in libya with 70 democrats voting no. the house would only go so far refusing to defund u.s. operations in labia. only 36 democrats voted in fair of that measure. ohio congressman dennis kucinich joins us live from capitol hill. welcome, congressman. >> hi ron, good to be with you. >> why did you and 69 other house democrats break with the president on libya? >> first of all it's not the
president's choice to make. it's up to congress to make the decision whether or not this country declares war. so i've been involved in leading the effort to -- not just against the war in libya. but in leading the effort that congress assumes its rightful position what the system of checks and balances is act vatd and the system of powers on the issue of war that our founders had a clear intention to enact and preserve it. >> as you well know, the u.s. hasn't -- congress hasn't officially declared war since world war ii. and we've fought in many places around the world. what is it about this libyan operation that has people so up in arms? >> as i looked at what was happening, the president unilaterally made a decision to take us into war, he talked to the arab league, nato, tun and didn't come to the united states congress and ask for permission.
when i looked at that, i said, you know, i don't think this is what the founders had intend. i talked to other members of congress on both sides of the aisle. we decided that article one section eight needs to be enforced. that the congress dr our constituents are the ones that are asked to serve if there's a war. we're directly elected. we'd better have a say on these things. with america looking at the potential of expanding wars in pakistan and yemen, and somalia and sudan and god knows where else. >> you voted against authorizing the action in libya. i'm assuming you're one of the democrats who funded not to fund the operation in libya. i understand you going to introduce an amendment to that effect. if all congress is going to do is express displeasure about this without pulling the money, are we really just talking about symbolism. >> there is a symbolic
dimension, you're correct on that. however, there's nothing symbolic about an amendment which is coming up in two weeks. it's an amendment sponsored by myself and the congressman from michigan, that amendment cuts the funds. that is the amendment that will be the defining vote on libya. once you cut the funds, i think we've got a pretty good chance of passing it, then this thing is done. >> now, we all remember how we got into this and the circumstances that surrounded our action in libya, gadhafi's forces were rolling towards benghazi, a city of 700,000 people. he was vowing to slaughter them. what sort of discussion would we be having today if president obama had sat on his hands and allowed that to happen? the republicans, i imagine would be up in arms accusing him of allowing these people to die. >> first of all, there was no massacre and that gadhafi was on a rant and was threatening once we had experienced an
insurrecti insurrection, that calls for simple analysis and not just reaching for the military response. the fact that we went based on threats as opposed to anything that was definable that actually happened, that's a big proem because here we reacted in libya based on threats and yet with what was going on in yemen, in baa ran, in syria and other places where there's real harm done to civilians, we didn't do anything. you have to see what's really -- what is the real deal here in libya? is it about america's interests? i don't know. libya didn't attack us. they don't have any intention of capability of attack us. the war powers act says there has to be a threat to the united states. that's why ron, it was so important for congress to get involved to have the administration begin to answer questions and they by no means have answered the fundamental questions about why are we
there, who are we supporting, really, and what's the end game? we should be joining china and other neighs that are talking about the need for a political solution because there is no military solution in libya. >> well, you're absolutely right. the end game is always the final question here with any sort of war activities. thank you congressman dennis kucinich. i know you're busy. i'll let you get back to your work. let's turn to howard fineman. howard, why did president obama go into libya many the first place, do you believe? >> i think it's initially to prevent a humanitarian disaster which may have been murky to some. the likelihood was all too real for the president to ignore. that was number one. and i think number two in the larger context of the so-called arab spring i think there was some sense in the region that if they could topple repressive regimes elsewhere and do it in
the name of humanitarianism they may as well go ahead and do it. >> howard, here's speaker john boehner today on the house floor. have a listen. >> at the outset we asked some very straight forward questions of the president. why isn't removing gadhafi a part of this mission? what if he doesn't leave? who are the rebels that were there helping to fight? how long is this going to last? and at what cost? and what does success look like? these were questions that the administration would not or could not answer. >> howard, that perfectly reasonable questions, i suppose. do you think that john boehner would be asking those of a president named bush, for instance? >> no. ron, i was just listening to that. i'm sure all our viewers were doing the same. saying why didn't john boehner or virtually any republican ask any of those questions which
were all the same questions before we went into iraq? word for word the same question. the answers were not supplied. indeed, some of the answers we still don't have even though we now have 48,000 troops let's not forget in iraq. so you know, this is a lot of theater. i hate to be cynical here. there's a lot of theaterics here. first of all, whatever's happening in the house is meaningless, the senate's going to do nothing. they had a symbolic vote today but won't vote to cut off the funds. republicans are loving going after the president on libya because they're still weary of going after him on iraq and afghanistan. which are two wars that had their roots in the bush years. and which republicans when it suits their purposes would still like to brag about from time to time. >> i suspect if muammar gadhafi disappears this issue will
quickly evaporate and disappear as well. thank you, howard fineman. coming up michelle bachmann's kicking off her presidential campaign this weekend. she's a big plooefr in creationism. she says as long as there's a controversy, intelligent design should be taught alongside evolution. but there's mo controversy in the scientific world, so why do the republicans get to push their believes on the rest of us? that's ahead you're watching that's ahead you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc.rthoti. dr. scholl's custom fit orthotic center recommends the custom-fit orthotic that's best for your tired feet. foot-care scientists are behind it. you'll get all-day relief. for your tired achy feet. for locations, see drscholls.com. thank you...
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>> welcome back to "hardball." on monday congresswoman michelle bachmann is expected to announce she's running for president. here she is in 2006 talking about evolution. >> there is a controversy among scientists about whether ef lugs is a fact or not. that has reached a conclusion that evolution is a fact. there are hundreds and hundreds of scientists many of them holding nobel prizes who believe in intelligent design. >> and just last week after speaking at the republican leadership conference she said this, i support intelligent design. what i support is putting all science on the table and then letting students decide. i don't think it's a good idea for government to come down on one side of a scientific issue or another. when there is reasonable doubt on both sides. the science on evolution in case you were wondering is pretty
unequivocal. when republicans deny scientific evidence on this and on issues like global warming shouldn't they be called out? bob shrum is a strategist and david jones is an msnbc contributor. welcome to you both, gentlemen. bob, let me start with you. how disturbed should we be that a presidential candidate is talking nonsense? >> look, it's an indication of how far to the right the republican party has moved. this the flat earth ideology. believe what you want and the facts be damned along with all of us all nonfundamentalists. when i was growing up i was taught in catholic schools that there were inconsistent between evolution and belief in god. god could use the evolutionary process in creation. still that was a matter of faith. that wasn't something you were taught as a fact. you could be taught it in
catholic schools not public schools. michelle bachmann and people like her have a different mission. they want to indicate the idea many the bible that the world was created in seven literal days a few thousands years ago. most biblical scholars think that's nonsense and they ignore all the geological evidence. it remind me during during the scopes trial in tennessee in 1920s when the state outlawed evolution. william jennings brian was representing the state was put on the stand and he was asked about the fact that the rocks that darrell was showing him were thousands of years older than his theory would allow. he looked at darrell and he said, frankly i am more interested in the rock of ages than the age of rocks. that's what's going on here. you have that kind of coupe in the republican party of people taking over. >> michelle bachmann said
there's a controversy among scientists about whether evolution is fact. hundreds and hundreds of scientists many of them holding nobel prizes believe in intelligent design. none of that is true. is she just ignorant or is she deliberately misleading people? >> that's a really good question. i think you have to have her on the show. i'm shocked. not only does she go on -- >> i'm not really shocked, i'm just outraged. >> i'll grant you that. in addition to that, she believes that global warming is is a hoax. she has said that almost all gays and lesbians have been abused as children that's why here homosexual. she has said the founding fathers worked tirelessly to end slavery. that wasn't true. they kicked the can down the road. it seems that ignorance or historical revision is really
her stock and trade. that's obviously for partisan appeal. it may be what she believes, which would indicate a certain detachment from reality. plus the scary thing is that such detachment has gotten her far in politics and may serve her very well in places like iowa. >> bob, here's what really disturbs me. it seems to exist this kind offing seems to exist on a continuum for me. you deny evolution, then you deny global warming. then you're talking about birtherism. suddenly you're claiming when you cut taxes you raise revenues. it's this disdain for reality that disturbs me, i guess. >> i think that's absolutely right. it's a flat earth ideology that goes across the board. on economics you're trying to see boehner and company trying to take demand out after a
economy so people buy less. the interesting thing if you look at romney and huntsman they're deeply suspect in the republican party because they refuse to deny the science of cliermt change even though they don't want to do anything about it. they're trying to split the difference to satisfy the base. but it would be terrifying for us and for the world for someone like michelle bachmann to become president of the united states. i suspect that secretly in the white house they might be rooting for her to be the republican nominee. maybe even not so secretly. zblin deed. daufd, somebody had are a conversation not too long ago with a diplomat from china. they got talking about global warming. the american asked the chinese diplomat are you having this argument in china about global warming. he laughed and shook his head. our leadership comes from science and engineering, mostly. no we're not having that conversation. we never really had that conversation because they understand science.
>> bob made an important point a moment ago. the scientific debate on blaurm is over. and in fact, it was even acknowledged by the bush administration. george w. bush. he ended up coming up with a voluntary system that didn't really address the issue. he and everyone that worked for him said it's real. sarah palin used to say it was real. you have pawlenty and mitt romney who both took actions as governor who said it was real. we now live in the sort of fact free political media environment where people can get away with just denying things and saying, hey, there are two sides to every issue. what she just side about creationism. there's a scientific debate. on one side there are three scientists on the other side three million scientists. let's have a debate. go ahead. >> i was going to ask bob if he thinks that it is useful and fair, but certainly useful to
question presidential candidates about issues like evolution to kind of sus out their mind set about this. >> you don't have to question michelle bachmann. >> she just comes out. >> this is for her a point of the lance. she is appealing to the religious right in iowa. her whole strategy is to launch herself there, survive in new hampshire, get to south carolina and do the same thing. i think the viewpoint is distinctly a minority one in america. she might just take off if the republican party completely loses its head, they might nominate her. she'll be eager to give her answers. her answers will be entirely fact free. >> for me this is not about a religious belief at all. you can believe that the world is a lump of cheese riding on the back of a giant turtle for all i care. my the great turtle bless you. but shoving it into science glasses just that crosses the line for me. we're going to have to leave it here. i'm sorry guys, it's been a
back to "hardball." now to the side show. first up, an indecent proposal. republican senator jim demint is pushing a pledge that would oppose raising the debt ceiling without spending cuts and a balance t budget agreement. last night glenn beck learned rick santorum signed that pledge. beck's reaction, he offered to kiss santorum in the mouth. >> i talked to jim demint
today -- it's the cut cap balance and pledge. >> i like that. i signed it. >> you signed it? >> yeah. >> i could kiss you in the mouth. >> in the mouth? what does that even mean. next up, talk about a buzz kill, last night at a latino event, presidential hopeful rick perry tried his best to woo the hispanic vote. awkward jokes about tequila didn't help his cause. >> young hispanics in texas can aspire to be the next chairman of the texas racing commission. maybe the next roberto dejoyas who heads our economic development shop. and one of my favorites the head of the texas alcoholic beverage commission, jose cuervos.
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